(A Chat Transcript)

To the reader: This is the first chat transcript I have posted here on the Binary Angel site. I have had lots of interesting and informative conversations over the course of the past year, of course, but this is the first time the person with whom I was speaking suggested that others might be able to benefit from the discussion. Here it is, then... a little dressed up, with spelling errors corrected so that the world in general will not know what incompetent typists we really are :)

May it be a blessing to you:

Lynne: Hi, David. I have a question. Is there any article you have written, about “fear,” or anything in the CSDA writings about “fear?”
David: Lots in the Bible says, “fear not,” “Be not troubled,” “Take no thought” for unpleasant things. I’m not sure if I wrote about it specifically...
Lynne: Ok, I am not looking for any verses about not fearing, or not being afraid...I am looking for , how can I say... fear as an emotion that binds, any information on fear, as an emotion that can put a person in literal emotional bondage.
David: There is the verse that says, “God has not given us the spirit of fear.” But any thing not of Yah is a bondage, Emotional and otherwise. Why?
Lynne: I know, fear is not from Yah and the verse you are referring to is in 2Tim 1:7...I know this one well... Think of this for a minute, ok? Many Christians don’t accept the victory, for two reasons... 1) they don’t believe it, or 2) fear.
David: Right.
Lynne: Ok, what do we fear? What is it about fear that keeps people in bondage?
David: Failure, change, death...
Lynne: Yes, but it is more than that, I believe... Fear is the strongest emotion... even stronger than love, i.e., Ever met someone you really liked and wanted to say I love you, but couldn’t because of fear of rejection? As an example.
David. Hmmm...But then, love is transcendent on these...Love is a choice :)
Lynne: Yes it is, but it is an emotion too.
David: Yes, the emotion that results from it. And it’s about as strong as any other, so I guess the emotion-love can be overcome by fear.
Lynne: Ok, we love in Christ, and we know HE loves us... this is fact.
David: The choice, however... that is stronger still, I’d say.
Lynne: No...it isn’t, because fear is an obstacle.
David: It is, Bible says. Love casts out all fear :)
Lynne: Perfect love casts out all fear. Right.
David: Yes And what is it we Have?
Lynne: And who has perfect love?
David: Us. Christians do.
Lynne: Jesus.
David: Not just him... all to whom He gives it. That is you, and that is me. We HAVE it. Even if we don’t always FEEL it.
Lynne: Yes I agree, but you are missing my point here. look at it this way... in science for instance...scientifically, what does the emotion of love do to the body?
David: Chemical changes, endorphins etc.
Lynne: Right. What does fear do?
David: The same.
Lynne: Right. Now, in high stress situations, which one wins? Usually, in most people.
David: Depending on what their CHOICES are: Either way. In us, Love will, in most people, I grant you, fear. Because they do not know Him.
Lynne: You agree with me, that I know I have accepted the victory, correct? I know I have.
David: You do claim it. I would have to BE you to say yea or nay to that. But...we should never doubt it. You know; and if you know that you know, then you know :)
Lynne: right, and I know. yet... I fear.
David: (smiles.)
Lynne: So the question is... why?
David: You feel fear. Because, Romans 7... until we have our new bodies...We have the flesh to deal with. We walk in the Spirit, that is to say, we give heed to that, But we will be tempted to give in. The way to deal with it best is to learn the new tongue. Instead of saying, I fear...or I hurt, or I doubt. Or I am sad or I am worried. Say....I feel fear, I feel hurt, doubt etc. Do you see the difference?
Lynne: Yes, I understand all this.
David: Right. Instead of having the feelings define us, we define THEM.
Lynne: That isn’t what I am trying to get across.
David: Ok, then I will try to be more understanding of this...
Lynne: You are right... that is the perfection, instead of having feelings or emotions define us, we through Christ in us, can control and define them.
David: But that isn’t what’s is troubling you?
Lynne: In people that suffer chemical imbalances in the brain, these imbalances affect the emotions......fear in cases of panic, anxiety, depression.
David: Yes, Perfectly right.
Lynne: Ok... We come to accepting the victory... and in my research of many people most over the age of 35+ lived in a world where “future shock” was a reality today because of technology, the workplace has changed drastically... and those in our age categories have to change, FAST... relearn new things, new ideals, and we often see the old moral decay because of it. So what happens? Often the older, the more to unlearn, and relearn... thus fear.
David: I understand the fear.
Lynne: Ok, now take it a step further...
David: But Lynne... it’s not our work, not that part of it.
Lynne: Yes, it is.
David: The Spirit takes over the inward parts of this. What I mean is... about other people.
Lynne: Because the fear stops the victory.
David: That is also the Spirit’s work To deal with the fear, We deal with ourselves, walking in the Spirit :) We teach others what we know, and share our testimonies. Then the Spirit can work with them also.
Lynne: Ok, you are not understanding what I am trying to say.
David: Please be patient with me if this is the case. I think I am, if you apply my answers...But do go ahead.
Lynne: Let’s take it from another angle. What is emotional bondage?
David: A feeling that stops you from doing something.
Lynne: So someone comes to a church, a minister, a pastor, totally lost....and they accept Jesus, why do many Christians fall away?
David: They were never there, At least, not at full acceptance, Not victorious-life type. Do you agree with what I am saying?
Lynne: I am in disagreement. A baby born cannot walk or eat meat.
David: Are you saying that people are accepting the victory and then falling away in churches every day?
Lynne: People are... yes.
David: Then they are eternally lost. Is that what you are saying?
Lynne: No.
David: That is what Scripture teaches, If a man reaches this level of enlightenment and then falls away, there is NO sacrifice left...
Lynne: They will only be eternally lost, if they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
David: Yes.
Lynne: They don’t reach that though.
David: That is what “this” is. I want you to listen ok? After we accept the Victory, that is THE enlightenment. To reject it after that is to blaspheme the holy spirit. I don’t say we don’t slip through ignorance, but to CHOOSE to do a known wrong, fully knowledgeable of it... That is Lucifer’s rebellion. There is nothing that can be done after that. This is not going on in churches all over the world today. Not yet. When we bring this victory message... then there will be the harvest. Does this make any sense?
Lynne: Yes, fully.
David: I know something is troubling you deeply, I understand what you said above, though, Fear will keep some people from accepting the victory. Satan will use anything to keep people from hearing us, fear included. What is it? I don’t mean your theological problem, I think. What brought this up?
Lynne: As you know I have been looking for answers for a long time now, right? And I have now found it.
David: Yes. Amen :)
Lynne: What stops and keeps people in emotional bondage, even when they accept Jesus’ love and gift of salvation, it is fear. Now fear can been a good thing, for as the Bible says... “Fear is the beginning of wisdom” and it can be a really bad thing also, emotional bondage.
David: Fear of the Lord is, But it is the “beginning” of wisdom :)
Lynne: So to know fear, and overcome it, that is victory.
David: It is where it starts, It is not the end. Yes, it is.
Lynne: So now, to overcome fear... who can overcome something they do not know?
David: For some that is not the test
Lynne: For many it is, and for me it is.
David: Understood. Now, you have a problem with the emotion of fear?
Lynne: David, for two years, I have been suffering with panic, anxiety, depression attacks, I researched everything I could, including God’s Word on this, but the “source” of these illnesses 1 in 2 people suffer, is fear. That is what I couldn’t find. So in victory, we will not fear, but rather trust... Trust is the opposite to fear.
David: Yes, And even when the feeling tempts us, We have the authority to rebuke it...
Lynne: Right, this is true.. Now take a chemical imbalance in the brain... this is real, is real ....... like Alzheimer’s. We chose not to, and strive to overcome.
David: But let me speak a blessing unto you...Even the physical things can be burned away, You must believe they can be. And that the promises are for YOU :)
Lynne: YES! Remember when you pray, and ask for things, you have to be specific right?
David: I think it tends to work better that way.
Lynne: So I could pray, ‘Please Yah, take this situation because I can’t handle it,’ and the situation doesn’t change. Why? Or now I can pray, ‘Please Yah, take my Fear.’ What victory is there in a situation changed? But oohhh the glory to God, to take away the emotional bondage, to empower us through HIM to change the situation.
David: A lot of chemical imbalances are the result of lifestyle. No condemnation here, just...
Lynne: Yes, and some hereditary.
David: When Yah opens your eyes to things...right, some hereditary too. But all under His control, yes?
Lynne: Generational curses? Yes, Yah is in control.
David: And He wants us to be free of these.
Lynne: So, for two years, I have been looking for the source .....why am I feeling this... Of course He does, honey, but more than just free...He wants us to become stronger for it.
David: Then there is this..... Be thirsty. Remember after our discussion of angels, Genesis became a lot clearer?
Lynne: Yes.
David: I understand you say you have been searching Scriptures for your answers for the past two years. And I would never say anything to belittle that in the least, I know the Spirit used that mightily. But now, with your new understanding of Victory, search again. Naaman had to go down into the water 7 times before his leprosy was taken. He went down 6 times and nothing happened. He must have felt silly. But dip once more. There is a miracle under the water :)
Lynne: David, I am not going to stop. That is not the issue or question.
David: I know. But I don’t want you (or anyone) to ever feel fearful, or worried, I understand you will...Feelings come, But I don’t have to like it :)
Lynne: Ok.. let’s take it in this form...secularly, what is bondage? Physically?
David: A restraining thing.
Lynne: It is a “tied up” right, so when restrained, a person cannot move. Emotional bondage works the same way. When in emotional bondage, a person CANNOT MOVE until the ties are untied, the ropes are found.
David: I see. Yes. That is the victory in our case, right?
Lynne: in spirit, yes, when ALL ropes are found and untied. Now, take it from this perspective, what is forgiveness? Then why is forgiveness of self so important... even when we know Yah has forgiven?
David: We have to trust He has, and move on it, yes... But self dies.
Lynne: Right, self dies... does guilt?
David: The dead know nothing, We may feel guilt. But if we recognize that these are now illusions from Satan...We can overcome them.
Lynne: Right. There is the key word......If we recognize.
David: Yes. And that is our whole job now. To see. That is why we are called “witnesses.”
Lynne: And that is the whole emotional bondage... I didn’t recognize the fear. I saw the panic, felt the body changes, went through the depression, and never knew it was fear.
David: I see, Okay. And you are now here, where you do recognize what it is?
Lynne: Yes. Now I can pray to YAH for the right thing and let the Spirit work. I couldn’t understand why I was not afraid to die, I was afraid to live.
David: Right. To cast off the illusions... Satan often will tell you you aren’t “really” converted...Because he can no longer understand it... So he doesn’t believe it, fully, perhaps. Now the victory... I heard a parable once, read it actually.

David: Say there is a seed of a mustard tree, and you plant it and it sprouts... What is the sprout? Isn’t it a mustard tree? It isn’t mature yet... And it may not have all the characteristics... But here’s the trick: it is a perfect mustard tree. Nothing you can do to that shoot will make it any more a mustard tree than it already is.... It is young, and undeveloped, but perfect. It grows a little more and becomes a sapling. A little stronger, but still can’t withstand a strong wind, perhaps... All the same characteristics apply... Still a perfect mustard tree. Eventually it grows to be a mighty tree. And we can see the fruit fully then. And sit under the shade. But from the instant that perfect seed was planted, it was a perfect mustard tree... The thing with us is that we know we have a perfect seed. Because it had a perfect planter :)

Lynne: Yes. And it was the Spirit inside me that wouldn’t let go, even when the strong wind blew as against a sapling, still perfect, but young, weak, and in need of protection.
David: Yes. But now in terms of the victorious life...You are even newer still. It’s like Peter. He walked with Christ for a time...But still denied him “every now and then.” He didn’t have the victory yet, And Christ said to him before his last denial, “When you are converted, strengthen your brethren.” I am showing you a hard thing here. For some people... We aren’t even _truly_ converted to Christianity until we do accept the victorious life. That will hit the pride of everyone who is a Christian in name only... And the whole world will hate us.
David: You remember the conversation we had with Pastor yesterday... It’s about Victory, the spirit of the true Sabbath... That is why the CSDA will be attacked by everyone. Regular SDA included. The Trademark name is just the way.
Lynne: Well, since that conversation yesterday, I have not been able to go over again the whole Trademark issue, but what I have always felt about it was it was only a vehicle.
David: YES. Because you see... We go to every organization, to every denomination...And we say to them, “Come with us and be a Christian.” Get into the ark and be saved. And they will say to us, “What? Such arrogance! We are fine, and increased in riches, and in need of nothing.”
Lynne: Yes I know that passage :)
David: Right. We are telling them they are not true Christians. That will really burn them up. Whereas everything Yah makes is perfect from the beginning... Satan, His enemy is constantly improving, refining... twisting more.
Lynne: Today, I was called mean spirited, un-cooperative, vindictive, and then the fellow all wrapped it up in a personal character attack and said it was my personality.. I have never talked to, nor met this person, who said this. (And it wasn’t the doctor I went to see – it was a fellow from an insurance company) Now, this is not me at all. But this fellow holds power in the world that, dependent upon his decisions, will affect my life on this earth, and you know why I was called these things?
David: Wow. Why?
Lynne: Because I challenged him on his decisions, forced him to account. I phoned him because of the phone call I got yesterday, and he was the decision maker, so I wanted to speak with the one making decisions for my life.
David: I see. Reasonable...
Lynne: What I didn’t expect was the response on my character when I challenge his authority and policy. Sound familiar? When someone cannot account with a justifiable reasonable and logical answer, that holds water, what do they do? They try.... fear. The problem was, I didn’t recognize it, only responded. I lost that round, yep. but now what I have gained because of it... is far more valuable.
David: (nods and smiles.)

[End of Transcript]

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